From Farm to Fear: The Evolution of Halloween at Maan Farms

0:08 This family owned farm in Canada has turned Halloween into one of its most popular seasons, growing from a simple corn maze into a multi attraction experience over the last eleven years. That's coming up on today's show from the Haunted Attraction Network. I'm Philip and this is our annual Hauntathon where we're counting down to Halloween by celebrating Haunted House's daily via videos, podcast, articles, and more. To stay in the loop, subscribed to our weekly newsletter linked in the show notes. Man Farms in Abertsford, Canada began as a traditional family farm, but has expanded over the years to become a diverse agritourism destination with Halloween offerings at the forefront. Originally starting with a basic Haunted corn maze in twenty thirteen, the farm has now developed into a full Halloween experience featuring three main attractions in twenty ten twenty four the Slaughterhouse, the Way Down, and Homestead.

1:03 Each attraction offers. A unique level of intensity. Slaughterhouse is a white knuckle experience complete with chainsaws and intense scares. The Way Down immerses guests in a blind, disoriented journey with sensory deprivation Tactics and Homestead is the most intense experience where groups of eight experience six rooms of challenges over a twenty minute show. All three attractions operate alongside in midway with food, games and an opening ceremony, making Man Farms holding event one of the most intense and interactive experiences in the region. That is, of course, in addition to their other businesses, which we get into in this interview. Today, I'm joined by a mere Man who shares insights into the farm's evolution, the challenges of running a haunt within a working farm, and how they've continued to innovate every year. This interview dives deep into their design process and the families approach to agritourism, so be prepared to take notes. And most of the interview was left entirely raw and unedited because there's a lot going on here and I thought it would be fine to kind of just leave the conversation.

2:04 In its natural flow. Here we go in three two one. My name is amry Man, also known as Farmer Meir Farmer Director. I do business strategy and agriculture innovation. Month Farms is agriculture forward company that we cultivate over one hundred and sixty acres. We focus on strawberries, raspberry, bruberries, pumpkins, and corn. We wholesale, we sell direct to the public, and then we also use our products and different types of value added items along with the fourth part, which is maybe as big as everything else, is experiences we offer on farm, So that's our company as a nutshell.

2:45 In February and March is when we start working on strawberries inside of greenhouses, and then in April we're focused more on Easter events, and then May and June we get into strawberry season, which is a big bulk of our agriculture farmwork, and that carries all the way throughout the summer. As school ends, we start pushing and we start seeing a lot of public participating in our on farm experiences along with our events and zester, which is very popular as well. And then throughout all this we're selling wine to over four hundred diferent liquor stores throughout BC and Alberta and a little bit in the States. And then near September and October we have our daytime offering for fall and our nighttime offering for falls well for Haunted. Our business is categorized, and I would say revenue streams is our strawberry production, our on farm experiences in our winery.

3:37 And then of course it is a multi generational family. That's right business. You know, your grandparents started it originally, correct, then and then it's your parents and then now you and you have three siblings one hundred percent. Yeah, this is it's a family farm operation. And then there's my sister Prina. She lives in Richmond, which is about an hour and ten minutes away from here. She's still involved in the managerial side. And then I have another older sister name is Grileen. She does more of the retail side, the food innovation, and she's like our celebrity spokesperson. She's been on all these different shows. She does got yoga. And then my brother who's younger than me. I'm older my brother he does all the winery side of things and also helps with economics and financial planning. And myself I focus on the agriculture of the innovation and on farm experiences.

4:20 And then my father and. My mother are very much involved in pretty much recentle aspect and yeah, and recently we just purchased another properties while down the road. Okay, we're here talking because you do a massive Halloween event that has both a daytime and a nighttime component. So give us the very broad strokes of the daytime and the nighttime components. Yeah, definitely. Our daytime starts in her first week of September. We like to follow the Starbucks transition of pumpkin spice lattes. We love to follow that earlier and earlier, and we love to do that and that involves our farm attractions which we have. We're eleven different farm attractions from a zip line, to animals, to pedal trikes to you know, jumping pillows and whatever. But then along with the main items is like our pumpkin patch in the forest, which is very important. That's one of the first in Canada, along with a merry goldfield which is brand new this year.

5:11 So it's Marygolds that. We like to celebrate our heritage of being from India and sick and also our Hispanic culture that we have in BC as well is very prominent. But in the nighttime, I say six o'clock, we really get into spooky spirit twenty one nights out of the year. This year, the first night for that was a twenty seventh of September and then that that is a operation which entangles three different attractions along with a midway opening ceremony and over about one hundred and ten employees, about six c seventy five of them are actors, almost eighty of them are actors and the rest thirty are mixed in with support employees ticketing a managerial and insistent management. But our nighttime Haunt, because we're focused all that is mostly based off of actors and as actor based, so we take great pride in learning from some of the best hunts in the world.

6:08 One of them that always set out to me from the very beginning, I think because of how they did the managerial side of things was Eastern State Penitentiary. I've always taken some of the cues and how to break up operations. And we first started with just a scariest corn maze in Canada, and even before that, it was just me running around in a cornfield with my mom and my dad with my friends when I. Was a great time and it wasn't really anything, but it was fun for us. And then we dropped it for a few years, and then it came back and I said, Okay, let's really give this a proper goal and refigure out how to make a corn maze into a haunted corn maze. And that was twenty thirteen, that's right. It was at that point it was really just you put actors in the corn and let people kind of wander through.

6:51 Right. Well, I was in university and I knew we had this area of land available because we had just bought this property right next door and we did our daytime corn maze. But doing the whole whole thing into a corners didn't really make sense. So I mapped out a path, singular path that kind of went as far as I could and coming back through the cornfield, and I built just shacks out of two by fours and tie deek because I wanted to figure out the cheapest and easiest way for us to prevent rain from falling in on the actors. I hung some fake bodies radiostrand wrap and straw which we still make, and put a little bit of lights and sound in there, and every time a group of show up, I'd whistle to let other actors know that hey, someone's here, and we promoted it on newspaper.

7:34 Social media was just becoming a thing. We made a couple of posts here and. There, right, it would have been yeah, yeah, it was just just becoming Facebook, right, that's what it was, what it was, and so we put it in a newspaper and then I think maybe we had four. Hundred people come. Right. We were happy, we were beyond happy. And then the following year we just expanded and tried to make it a little bit better every single year. And then I can't remember what year it was, but decided to call it Scariest Corminations in Canada because after of doing it a few years, I really realized that people want to adhere to some sort of niche and that's what they want to pay for something that's really particular and they're really. Easy to understand.

8:15 Yeah, sometimes humans need to a box so they can understand what it is very quickly, you know. And your job is to different your business from the other businesses, and part of that is being like, you know, it's this, but this We mentioned Eastern State. But when they rebranded, they called it a Halloween Festival because they wanted to take it out of the box of a haunt. They want they want they want to know the expectation of what they're bying for right, and so we had a hard time really conveying that with some of the social media and marketing that we did, and I don't really know how to do it better. I knew if we give it a really strong name and we really. Focused on that's what we did every single night, then we really come across as something. Different and it gives you a north star. Yeah, you know exactly, because you're like, we want to. Make it scary. So it helps you with your decision choices because you know, if you're trying to tell a story, you're doing something different, and if you're just trying to startle a guest, there are different building techniques, right, Yeah.

9:05 So I didn't want to be as crazy as some of those people where it's okay, you get through this, we might pull your teeth out, but you win twenty thousand dollars. I don't want to do anything like that. I really still wanted where people walking through and they have a blast. So the first year we called it that, we had a two and a half hour lineup for entrance. I was like, oh shit, now I got something here. I got to do something about this. And then I said, okay, what can we do next. Number one need to increase to take a price. So my mom, she's very business savvy. She's very strong with we need to charge more, becauxistently continuously charge more throughout the years because our costs are always going higher, and she's always looking the numbers. And along with that, you can't just charge more, but you have to also add more. So we started adding more attractions into play and then we did the forest, so the force was great.

9:51 Then we added Homestead. Homestead was great, which is more immersive. But then I really thought about, Okay, how can we separate ourselves from the local competition and how can we really be more of the fun haunt. That's what I want to do is people laugh and giggy giddy, and when they leave focus on experiences. I want them to feel like they get a different experience. So that's why I always say the scariest corme is counted Out Slaughterhouse. That's our iconic attraction. It's a white knuckle experience. It's the one where you run away from chainsaws okay, the way down. It's the one where you get bag over your head right away, boom different. And then Homestead it's interactive it's immersive, so you still do get touched the way down. You do get touched at Homestead, but you'll get tied to a chair, you'll get put into a coffin, you'll get separated from your group, you'll get fed, you'll get you have to drink something. You'll see someone get cut in half, and you'll see blood getting gushed out, almost hitting.

10:47 You in the face. So that's where we've really tried to hit interactivity in immersiveness. The way Down is where we put a bag over your head, and then Slaughterhouse is where your white neckle. Experience, essentially where we are now in twenty twenty four. So we started in twenty thirteen, now in twenty twenty four. In twenty twenty four, you open twenty one nights, you said, and you have three attractions that are separate. It's not a continuous line. There separate attractions, plus and midway that ties them all together. And that is in addition to the regular items that they could experience during the day, but also open at night. So you have the food, you have that those elements, and of course the farm itself. So right now it's in a situation very much like a regional park where you can come and spend a whole day conceivably, because you could do the daytime experience and then you know, you could also stay for the night time, but they are separate because the nighttime obviously is appealing to older people.

11:38 Ticket Wise, can you is it all one ticket or do you buy each attraction separately? It's separate, Okay, your daytime ticket and your nighttime ticket are different. Yeah, but when you get a nighttime ticket, there's three different ticket options. It's Slaughterhouse, the Way Down, and Homestead. It's Slaughterhouse or the Way Down. And because Homestead is more interactive, it's homesteaded on its own. Yeah. I was going to ask about that because clearly it sounds like there's a difference in the through puts. That's right. So you know Homestead is like low through put, that's right. The Slaughterhouse is high through put, that's right. And so you have to limit the capacity of homes that I assume exactly. Yeah, so that's limited. So it's twenty minute experience for a group. How does that? Yeah, it's a ten to twenty minute experience based off of what night it is this year. You get six different scenes, including the entry scene and there's about twenty different actors.

12:27 The first scene is more of a cave, and then there's. Stairs that never supposed to be stairs, or someone walks down the stairs. Which just blows your mind. And then I try to make every single scene completely different to where when the door opens, like holy craps, a brand new world. And are you there with other people or is it just your group? So you're there with on a busy night, we'll put you up to maximum seven people. Oh wow, we do almost almost. Five hundred and fifty people there at night, okay, yeah, and within three hours. We try to make the savings dramatic enough to where it's a no brainer to purchase to all three pass and then so we always tell that out first. Then we have to start selling the slaughterhouse and the way down. Yeah, because then your home set is maximum homess maxed out.

13:08 Yeah, and so then always happens yeah, correct, So it increases per tap. So basically your that ticket is limited to your home seat. That's right, Yeah, that's right. The second reason which is so annoying about Homestead is that the set, deck and experiences have. To be brad new every year. Oh yeah, because. People spend time in there, they'll remember, do you remember if there's only six rooms? Yeah, right, you're going to remember, Yeah, which is a good and a bad thing. I mean, you want them to. That's why they're paying a premium really honestly for that that room. And it is a premium because if it's twenty five dollars and it's you know, a twenty minute, that's a dollar minute. I mean that's a that's a pretty high caliber. Yeah, it's a high caliber. So but yeah, you're right, it does require you to change sets, and then you could use that time instead to expand attraction, which could overall expand your potential ticket sales. Yeah.

13:53 Yeah, Yeah, it's making me think as we talk, because I've had these thoughts. I haven't been able to articulate them to anyone but by myself. But it takes me but four weeks to prepare homestead to the. Way it is, and we really only have maybe six and a half weeks for the entire haunt to prepare. That's all we have because of how busy we are with our strawberries or fall and then everything else happening. Yeah, plus for people listening, it is outdoors, and so we're here the day we're recording. You can do the event with the ring because there's too many risks involved in it. It's money and whatnot. But that's another thing. Those of you that do outdoor haunts understand, you get less build time because the weather can set you back. Not only can it impact your operating schedule, but you know, the people in Florida will know the hurricane comes through and then you have to go and fix your haunt.

14:41 I mean, so it really is difficult when you have an outdoor experience, very difficult because. Of the weather. But as as years go by, we're learning that we need to focus on what people love to do and what's sufficient for us to put on and for us to actually also exceed expectations because it's so while putting homestead together, it's always so much work, and it's always the. Number one contingency of why I love Haunted. But then I'm like, shit, I'm going to sleep with my eyes open, and I want to sleep with my eyes closed, you know what I mean. Ever, so, essentially started off as a regular as a farm, and then a little bit of selling produce, and then you expanded into aggritourism with the daytime and the nighttime offerings.

15:27 But I think we talked already about you know, you're balancing that because essentially the different people are working on it. You have a full multi generational family, and then you have your other managers, and so you're able to you know, you're able to focus on this stuff and it's not going to impact the rest of the business because you're working on this. Yeah, right, So you're balancing it in that way, because I think sometimes it's it's difficult. We jumped over a lot. Let me, let me just kind of reframe that. Yeah. So when I was going through Universe or high school in grade nine, my mom put the pettings you in and I thought, mad, this petting zoo is. Going to be ating stock of als. I didn't really like it. I was a great to have a grade EID, and I told my parents that. I was like, what are you doing? My mom had already experienced, and my dad she always had a different idea. She put the Gotel six in and everybody kind of learned about the Gotel six. Then we started charging two dollars per entry for the gotel and all that. And then in twenty fourteen, after we had built the farm marketing and we were already selling produces.

16:22 That was our focus. We had ended up having a fire that year because I was fourteen and someone came and built an entire farm market down. So this is this is actually as you walked inside, it's a greenhouse, because that was the quickest thing for us to build and get permitted. But before this, we had a second story facility which was I think it costs back then to one point something million to build. Someone just lived on fire the first year and so we lost it. And then that was the same year where my brother and I were getting more involved. This was I was fifteen now than January, and I said, what are we supposed to do? And I learned about this organization called NAFTMA, and my mom said you should go. So I went to it. My dad, my brother and I went to it, and we learned expanded what our eyes of what averaturism is and what on farm fun experiences are. And I did some of my business research of learning about where there's gaps in the market and where are you swat analysis and how.

17:14 To really be different. And we started putting in a couple of attractions in which was a jumping bill that used to be here, a zip line, a go court trap, and a play for it. We did it all within two months and we opened it and we were busy every day, every day busy, and. I was like, Okay, this is because of that competency that I knew earlier on in school. Now I'm getting confidence in my business decisions that I can make because at this point, this was almost ten years ago, so I was twenty one when we decided to do this. And then I learned that. Having fun form things and experiences are great, and my mom I really bought into my mom was saying, and that's what really kind of put me into the driving seed of on farm experiences at Man Farms.

17:57 And then at the same time, my brother was kind of getting through university and he did his business and economics degree. My sister was working somewhere else at that point, and my dad said, well, what are we going to do with all this extra fruit? Let's make a winery. Who's going to run this winery? All right, GOREV, You're going to do the winery to my brother. And my brother really I'm not sure if he loved it, but when he started getting into the intricacies of what wine making is and the business side of things. He loved sales, so he really. Spearheaded the sales side of things of the winery. And if you have great sales, you have to push to have more product. So we've been pushing that all the way up until now to where we're at four hundred different data stores and it's a large revenue source for our business. And then my sister came back into the picture in two thousand and maybe seventeen, I think it was, and that's when she transitioned from her corporate job in Vancouver into on farm living and the goat yoga and all that kind of.

18:52 Camera to be. And over those years of traveling the world and looking at different experiences of being to Eastern State Penitenttry and some of the best haunts in the world and some of the best farms in the world. Because now I'm a Board of Directors of NAPTIMA member, third year serving, I've learned that farming has to be farming. It can be sorry, farming can be agriculture based, but it can also be fun. And for me as a person, if it's not fun. I won't do it. I won't do it if any part of the business becomes Okay, I'm not having any fun anymore. I just won't do it. Doesn't matter how lucrative it is, it's really not worth it because your heart's not in it, and then it does fail at the.

19:37 End of the days. That's kind of where I've seen it, and I've been so blessed and grateful, and my family has been so blessed and grateful to be a part of this journey the last ten years to see where Man Farms has grown. Yeah, got it. So I think what I'm hearing is just from my perspective. I am hearing that you all are able to expand and keep multiple revenue streams because you have the talent to do so, and also that you trust each other. I mean it helps to your family. I mean, you know it's not you know, other corporations can do this too, but it also helps that you have the family, and all the family wants to be involved. You know, you when your sister came back and she wanted and so it's if it was just one of you and you had to run make sure you're doing the strawberries and the winery and haunted daytime and night time and be impossible, but so you're you know, it's kind of like your grandparents and then your parents, they're able to grow because of you guys, because your spear heading whole new sectors of revenue, and then you're able to do it in a way that doesn't impact Haunted is not interfering with the winery.

20:38 Do you think they don't even know anything haunt? I think that's what I'm trying to say, because the reason I point that out is actually because that's not the norm normally, because you know, there are many haunts that have bars, but then they need to close the bar to open the haunt because they don't have enough parking, or because they need to take the bar backs and they have to go and run the alcohol to that I mean they need, so they end up cannibalizing each other side, or even just the time, if it's only one owner and the owner doesn't have a team, they can't, you know, they can't deal with the updates and the liquor license and then also open a hanted house. Right, So it's interesting to me that you're able to maintain that the farm. You know, your family is able to maintain different businesses because you have a sibling that is spearheading each leg.

21:29 Yeah yeah, he's the director of that. Yeah yeah, yeah. Okay, so let's see we only briefly touched on this, but just the design process for the mazes and you you introduce new elements, but it sounds like a lot of the new elements come from Homestead because it's the one that's most intensive. But the but as everyone knows with outdoor experiences, one does not simply reopen the maze, right, It doesn't stay constant. You have to redo it each year basically, So how does the design process work? Though? In terms of when you're sitting out to plan out whether or not you're going to add a new attraction or retire one? Is that holy you? And are you doing it based off of customer feedback and sales or are you doing it based off of you know, you're like, well, I'm tired of Homestead now, so we're not going to do it again?

22:18 Or how does that work? I think it comes down to the best interest for the business as a whole, and it has to do with I think it's zero emotion and it has to be a business decision. In my opinion of how to how much to invest in, what attraction and how And I think over the years we've done a great job of doing this and really stepped up the farm and the haunt hand in hand one year the next and I've really really am very seeing how very much, like I just want to says it so much is that innovation and continue to innovation, but really serious and meaningful innovation is your north.

23:08 It's your ticket if you innovate strong enough. For say, I just want to give the pumpkin pats example, the pumpkin pats in the forest that no one's seen here on the West coast of Canada, and then also in all of Canada. It will beat through your recession, it will be through your election, it will beat through shitty reviews or anything you've done in the past, because that one experience that someone shares that first year, ah, let's go try it looks good. We've had some media here. Then the next year, which is this year, we are blowing through our numbers of how many people have been here, where I'm seeing every farm in the in the area down and I think that is that's just an example.

23:53 But I think we've done a great job on our farm side of things are full side of things because they needed it. And the number one person that's Spearheads, that is me of like where we need to innovate, how hard we need to innovate? The midway idea was me as how to expand those areas in there was me and then standing strawberry, you pick it was me and then like now the haunted side of things from we had Pitch Black before we had a home set. Right, Pitch Black was something great because no one's ever seen it before. But the reason why I did Pitch Black is because I built it in a week and a half. Because it was fucking eight containers put together completely dark. You can't see what you're going through. Oh now you can't see some actors yelling at people, right, But people will pay for it?

24:36 And is it a competitive experience? Don't discount it because now you haven't spent bested two hundred thousand dollars into it. But think about the experience side of things, and if everyone thinks more about the experience side of things, is that a win for the industry? Maybe? I think it might be great. Is it a knock at anyone that has beautiful sets? No? I think they go hand in hand. I think you need both. So yeah, I think kind of what I'm hearing from what you're saying is that you need to you reference this earlier, but I think it applies in this instance. But basically, you're aware of your demographics and your competitive landscape, and you are aware of where the gaps in the market are. Continues every year, you're aware where the gaps are, and then you're able to say, Okay, you know what, blackout cannot differentiate it enough anymore because X, Y, Z or whatever, this farm over here is now doing it, and so now there's market confusion or whatever. So actually we're going to change it over into homestead where it's not blackout anymore. It's homestead and it you know, we're going to take the pumpkin pass and we're going to put it in a forest because all the other farms have pumpkin patches, but nobody has them in a forest.

25:42 So that's how So everything we do has to be the only has to be differentiated where the customer knows if it's this thing, it's only here. That's right, one hundred percent, and that's yeah, that's a great way to articulate it's that's literally it. And so last year what we did is what I've been struggling with haunted houses for being a seasonal operation and having to recreate, like as you said, on an outdoor farm. Is that what's the theme going to be? Right? Because Okay, you did aliens this year, brand new set of mass, brand new design, brand new everything. Now you're doing clowns, brand new everything. You know, but if. You use your environment to your advantage, now you've done a synergiestic leap towards being more sustainable from year after year of redesigning.

26:30 So what I decided to do was to find something which. Was very ingrained in our culture of being a haunt but then also being lending itself to the farm in animals. So I thought, which is would be great? Right? So that's why we invented Agatha. And we're going to continue to keep the Agatha theme going year after year after year because that's like the North Star, like the storyline. But then we have animal hybrids, we have grunts, we have farmhands. We do have some clowns because we like we love clowns. Yeah, I fucking love clouds. People love clown like the consumers like clowns. Yeah, and so it makes it, yeah that they're one of them. Have to have it. You have to have either clowns or zombies. Yeah, gotta, you gotta really gotta. I mean you don't have to. There are money that don't, but it is, it is, you know, their staples must have.

27:15 Yeah, So tell me a little bit about looking into the marketing side, who is the primary audience for the Haunted corn Maze and is that different from your day offering? And then in my brain and I'm just giving you, you know, more context while you think about this, but basically generally how it works is that your your daytime thing. You know, you have a wider net with that because it's it's a wider demographic thing. You know, usually scary stuff has a closer one. And then usually the goal is how do we expand both circles? You know there's overlap, but how do we expand both of them? So I guess who is your audience with Haunted? And then do you notice that you're able to pull in people that don't normally do Halloween stuff because of you know, your proximity to your day Yeah, yeah, if that makes sense, I kind of know what I'm asking.

28:02 Yeah, yeah, what do you so, what do you mean about pulling in? Well, so you know, I mean, you have the daytime experience, and you can you can then kind of like potentially you can upsell your daytime guests right into your time experiences, even people who maybe never would have gone. But I mean, I guess, so we'll start at the first one. It's just who is your audience, you know? For Haunted, Yeah, our audience would be like younger, right, yeah, teenages, teenages, teenagers. But we have people that I would say is. Teenagers or middle aged folks anywhere with thirty to forty is our main focus. And your daytime is is fame time is families. Got it. But what I'm seeing now is that there's different types of aggaturves and operations out there. Some of the aggaturism operations are focused more on photo opportunities, where others are focused on farm experiences.

28:51 So where do we kind of fall on that? I think man farms is getting muddy and that needs to be sorted. But if it gets sorted, there's an opportunity there, one percent opportunity there, and if that opportunity is synergestic with the demographic variants. Then I think man farms can evolve into the next stage what man farm is supposed to be for the next five to ten years. And that's where I think this new asset that we've purchased down the road, the seventy acres and with the old buildings comes into play. So it's it's really really making a long term decision of where our growth factor is going to be and how we're going to service that big variance in demographics. The families who have kids that want an on farm farm experience, between adults which are teenagers to forty five.

29:36 Which don't brings kids with them. Yep, what do those two different demographics want Because they are. Different different, They're very different. And they're so different enough that that family will come with their kid and then leave their kid at home and then come back for then a time stuff because they have a different vibe but sometimes the same It's like the same person, but it's a different. Day. Yeah. Well, and I guess to the larger point, right, the only well, I'll just ask it, we'll ask it a different way. But basically, how looking at Haunted, what would you do to double the attendance? Oh? So, this is. I love that question, right because I.

30:18 Think it's similar to what we're talking about, right, because essentially, it's almost like sometimes you are capped out in a market, yeah, and there's nothing. It's not it's not bad marketing, it's not whatever. It's just like you're tapped out in a market just because of the amount of people that are interested in a spooky event. I mean, so, I don't know how close you are, but I'm just curious what you would do to double it because it's also infrastructural problems, parking, logistics of how how long people spend on site, there's a lot of Yeah. So honestly, i'd love that you to benchmarking because I want to learn more about where people are and so I can get a better understanding because I'm a bit confused, to be honest. So it's you know, how how I would see why would you want to double? That's the number one question, and so I would see that. Okay, if we.

31:02 Want to gain more revenue as a company, and you feel like that's what you need to do to service your stakeholders, meaning whatever it is, I think that we need to either add more products or services or we need to get a new market. Okay, Okay, that's where I kind of see your business kind of. So you kind of think you're kind of like where you're thinking, you there's not as much growth potential in expanding the amount of people coming too haunted from your current that current market. Yeah, I think there's two to two point five million people that live within about two hour drive from here, and we are bringing in people from Oregon, Seattle, and New Mexico. People flew in from just for this that we've seen. So I think that our marketing is spectacular. We're probably one of the leaders for marketing on daytime opportunities for sure, and on nighttime. I think that we do great job. We can probably do better. I think some of the areas where we could excel for adding maybe a percentage of increase of five to ten percent is definitely there. Like we can make some meaningful differ to increase our revenue by five to ten percent. But by doubling a revenue or doubling attendance, I think that we have to have a new.

32:09 Product or service or we have to have a new market share. Yep, exactly, Yeah, I think what does that mean? I think, well, I think that's generally the right Well, I don't know if it's I don't know if there is a right approach because markets are different, right, But what. Does that mean though? It means scaling? Yeah, so scaling, Okay, Now that's what kind of person are you? Are you ready to do that? You know, that's the question. And I've been wanting to scale for the last three years. Land acquisition around here is, like we spoke about earlier, is quarter million dollars per acre. And I would think that for us to have a meaningful impact and be closer to downtown, which Vancouver Downtown is an hour away, would be our ticket. And to find something out there, you'd have to It's like a needle in a haystack. So we do have some cards on the table. We're really working for it. And because you don't have it right now, it doesn't mean that it's going to happen not gonna happen later. So we're young and we're dumb enough to give it a shot.

33:08 So why not try? And if it's not Vancouver, what are the other markets that we can do practically? We're looking at those, Okay, we're. Meaningfully making a strong commitment to hopefully have something set up by next year. It's not next year twenty twenty six, but. You're thinking it's gonna I mean you you would think it would be like an experience at a property, right, It's not going to be like opening a restaurant. R. I mean you know what I mean, Like it sounds like experience. Yeahah, it sounds like everything you're saying would be like almost like an fec or. You know, we're doing like a type of thing. Yeah, exactly, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah yeah, still still themed entertainment, yeah, is what I mean. And then how do you how do you scale on multiple locations?

33:49 Correct? Right, it's it's like the next thing. And so I think from all the research I've done, you need to have an operator who has an equity stake because you cannot spend time and effort to being that next location as you can at being both. You know, at being one you have to be. So you almost have to have an operator who builds himself up to have an equity steak or a small equity steak, something meaningful, or it's someone who's in your in your circle or even in your extended circle, that show's potential to almost be an equity stake position over there to where they give a shit as much. As you do. Well, I think that's why you guys have been so successful. We talked about that earlier. I mean, everybody that has every major revenue stream in your business is headed by a part of the family, so it kind of gives them an incentive inherently. But in order to double a thing, I mean, you can't. You don't have enough children.

34:44 Years old. It's going to be a while. It's going to be a while, but yeah, there's not enough. Yeah, you would need to you know, the amount of staff even involved. I mean, yeah, there's a lot of. And then you have to have the right person. You have to have the well, especially I think in markets like these, you need to have the right person. Yeah. Okay, so we already talked about the different revenue streams, but I'm curious to talk about premium options or VIP experiences. Ye. You know, we talked a little bit earlier offline about the per cap and you're able to increase a little bit and then initially you had fast passes. But do have the PA experience as a premium Yeah, we do. So we do have a VIP experience. It gets you immediate access, so we had I needed access.

35:29 Then we said, okay, let's put a VIP in. And it had to do with some. Of the advice we got from one of the haunters, Tullies, you know shocktober Fast and do you know them? They're incredible people. Yeah, I love them. So he said, just why are you not doing a VIP experience which is extremely highly ticket a price. It will make everything look lower and then you're automatically increature per cap. So we decided to do that and it was actually a successful offering and it got you needed access so you don't have to wait in line at all. It gave you like a witch hat. You got all of our treats that we get. It is included in it, like one of each or something, and it's you got a reserve seating. That's and you got reserved lineups like everywhere. Right, So that's all it is. And people love it. People love it. They're on a busy night. It is one hundred percent worth it in my opinion, because you get to do everything.

36:13 You're here for an hour and a half, two hours, go for dinner and go do whatever you want. You're gone right, Yeah, so that's that's definitely works. And I think the next evolution of that would be to do what Universal does. I think the Universal nots where its you. Have your completely separate entrance, completely separate buffet, you get to go back to as many times as you want, You get to get everything you want. You have even your own tour guide would be great to show you a little bit behind the scenes and what the farm is, you know, just some people want to go for a walk, right and learn more about what works in the business business owner's mind. There's different versions of that, but yes, yes, KNOTS does not have Nots have a universal the Universal has Universal Orlando has a private entrance for.

36:59 They do. They do private tours and they do like public rap tours. One is you just buying one ticket. One is you have to buy ten minimum or you know, pay for whatever. Oh yeah, and then but either one of them you get a private entrance and you can do that whole experience. Not does have a buffet option, or you can go early to do the buffet and then get in a separate entrance. However, even smaller haunted houses do something like that. So for example, feel the screams. You know, those guys are great. That was inspiration for me as well, hopefully also listening in you bags better be they do they this year have a chainsaw bar and it has they do have a buffet option where you can enter an exitent sure and it has got separate entrance.

37:41 Sure. I want to get one more shout out cause then a little people listen reapers over in Pennsylvania. Is that right? Philadelphia? Where are they? Yeah? In Philadlia. That's where I. Learned about the experience side of things because I was on a haywagon and then I went inside a freaking police station. Then I went. Into the clown funhouse and it was like a military splace only shit, the brand new world. So I really wanted to do that experience out of things that really kind of capsulated my mind of what. I was doing. Yeah, yeah, yeah, they do a They do a great show out there. Pepers. So we talked in passing about the food and beverage and obviously I ate some of the food and beverage options, but there are a lot of food and beverage options, So tell me about how that plays into it. I know It's like we talked about the winery as a whole revenue.

38:34 Line, but this is separate from that. I mean here you have. The masala, you have a pumpkin pizza, you have I mean you have savory and sweet items that are available for the daytime and also the nighttime. So what. Like, how impactful is that you know, for for your your revenue for the haunted side. Yeah, it's having a food offering which can go viral. I think it really blows up. And ice cream, yeah, it goes bay. Yeah, the pumpkin ice cream is served in a pumpkin. It literally served in a pumpkin, which is yeah, it's and I I'm the only one, I think in Western Canada that grows with pumpkins. I don't know anybody that grows that, specially pumpkin. But my sister thought about doing that, and then my mom and my sister do it. And then my dad being an engineer, he runs all rice cream machines and make sure they work perfectly, cleans him out every single night. He has helping hand for it.

39:26 But it's I would say it's a six figure plus side of our business, which is incredible to see freaking ice cream and a pumpkin do that, but it's people will come just for that and then they learn about everything else. It's the same thing. It's like it's like that one item which is in your company. That people come just for and wow, they have this, they have that. Yeah, and it makes money. That's great, you know. And we charged fifteen dollars for it, I think, which is really high in my opinion, but people do not mind lining up for it because it's the price doesn't matter. We're back in the rain is a line yeah, you know, yeah. In ice cream right, yeah, it's cold, right, yeah, I barely want to drink beer today.

40:07 Yeah, it's really I think. What's interesting to me is that the menu is not extensive because you don't have like a very large kitchen. It's not like a restaurant, you know, it's not a restaurant. You don't have the enormous, you know, commercial kitchen. But all the items are unique in that it's pumpkin pizza, like where else you're getting pumpkin pizza. It's pumpkin ice cream served in a pumpkin. It's like things that tie to the fact that you have a pumpkin patch and also a Halloween experience, so you know there there are a lot of very extent I. Don't want to downplay anyone's food. I mean, you know, like the Ocean Park team, they do a great job at creating an entire menus designed around their horn houses. I mean there's a lot of really cool food experiences and so you know, but it's just I like how it's thematically they hide Yeah, right, yeah, it's And also something we were talking about we I think we even texted you.

40:59 It's kind of I was kind of like, you know, like you never. Know, right, You're like, is there food food or is it like doughnuts? Right? And so you know it's like food, do we get something on the way? And I think that's that is essential to making it a night, a full experience, because if they have to leave to get food, well, first of all, they have to leave to get food, then you know you're losing revenue. But second, you know, you want it to be good food and you don't want to be sharing the margins if you're bringing in a food truck or whatever. I mean, it's better if if you can make it a thing, because you can charge a premium. And the ice cream is a perfect example being able to charge a premium for a regular product. Sure. Yeah, yeah, Well if you're if you're big enough and you get enough numbers, come to your door because I want touch the food truck thing.

41:42 Tully's has a great way to do that. Yeah. Have you interviewed that. We've talked in the past. Yeah, you know, I've interviewed him a long time ago. Okay, it's been a while, it's been a while. They're nuts. I know they're beyond nuts there. It's the most flattering wave pop. But also yeah, I think they get away with stuff that we couldn't get away with in the States. You just got to give it a punt. You got to try, you got to try, and then yeah, you know, people come knock in for sure, they will just ask for forgiveness. So great. I love that about them. I love that about them. Yeah, we have. The last thing we didn't talk too much about, only a little bit, but just kind of the long term plans, and we touched on it. But essentially what we touched on was if we were going to double the revenue, we need to hold different business basically. But when it comes to just the Haunt portion of it, where do you kind of see that evolving aside from just you know, switching out that one.

42:42 Yeah, I would say multiple multiple locations throughout different regions. Okay, so that. Way it kind of spreads it, yeah, because you don't have you know, because again it's difficult. I mean, you know, it's it's essentially there, there's a cap. You're you're approaching a cap. Yeah. But like the systems, which I think every business needs a system, the system we've created for management of the Haunt, which I think is probably fifty percent of the battle or more of managing your actors, managing payroll, managing safety, managing experience. I think the system we've made. It's so easy to follow, so easy anybody could do it. So if we can take that system and put it in place in the next location, I don't know why it would not be as success if we follow some of the milestones that we we adhere to, that we've conquered, and we stay true to ourselves. I never wanted not to be fun. I never not want it to be something that we are known for, and I never wanted not to be scary, Like it's got to be proper scary.

43:44 So yeah, got it? Okay, Yeah, is there anything I didn't ask you that you think it's important. No, man, I think that what you do is incredible for the industry and more people in the haunt industry who are putting on a genuinely safe and enjoyable. Experience and need to be highlighted. And the industry is just beginning. Doesn't matter. Fuck the election, fuck all the recession that people are talking about. They don't know what's coming around the corner because you don't understand. I do now because of my kid and other kids that he hangs out with, how much people love, like little kids love horror or things tied into horror.

44:24 And those people are the first iPad babies. They're going to grow up and they're going to want all these things to be in real life, which we're starting to see now, correct, And it's over. It's literally over. People don't realize what they're coming into the next ten years. It's going to be a haunted landscape. And the people who are great are going to get better and people who are shittier and to dissolved and you'll never see them again, which rightfully so, because the market is a market, a market is a siding factor, and that's capitalism. That's finest, and people who are genuine and take care of their employees and take care of their staff will win. And I think those people need more grace. Yeah, Okay, I think that's it. You're the man. Thank you so much. Folk. Today's episode was produced and edited by me Philip Hernandez, with post production by David Swape and original music composed by Chris Thomas. We're counting down to Halloween with daily podcasts, videos, and events in our sixty one day Hauntathon. Follow along at the link in our show notes. Our Hantathon is made possible through generous support from Gantum, Lighty and Controls.

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