(Green Tagged) Universal Announces Horror Expansion in 2025 Amid Declining Park Revenue

0:01 From our studios in Los Angeles and Tampa. We are back home. We're both back home. Halloween is over, but we are still going to talk about some creepy things because it seems like Universal just doesn't want to let it go. Scott, Well, nobody does. You know, when you when you can make money off of being scared, they want to you know, they want to milk it for all it's worth. Yeah, so there's yeah. Of course that I also can't let it go, so you know, I mean, you never can let it go. So that's okay, I'm vibing with this. Oh and just to note, I know that the Haunters listening. We know that there's still Halloween events happening. They're still Legendary Hountor this coming weekend and places are open up until November thirteenth. You know, but Halloween is is past us, and you know Scott's moving on is deep.

0:42 And going to Christmas two weeks ago. So there's that, you know. Yes. So, so, as I hinted at the big news this week, of course, we got we got two huge updates from Universal. One is discussing the Vegas Project and the second is discussing the Animatronics for epic in Floor. So we'll take the Vegas item first because I think it was overall larger news. Maybe I don't know. I think I was larger news. But anyway, So, this Vegas project has been We've been talking about it for a while, and the Universal Corporate Communications released a press release this week announcing that it it will open in Las Vegas in twenty twenty five. I'm going to just read the press release here. So today Universal Destinations and Experiences announced that Universal Horror Unleashed, the company's first ever year round horror experience, is coming to Las Vegas in twenty twenty five.

1:37 In a darkened warehouse on the edge of Las Vegas, a relentless spectacle of horror is rising. Universal Horror Unleashed for decades. Blah blah, Universal is so great at Halloween. Blah blah blah. Sorry, I promised I had to read it, and then I just kipt it. Okay, Enter the Evils. Enter the Evils of four hundred houses, each of which its own terrifying story. Universal Monsters, the Texas Chainsaw, Masacer Scarecrow, the Reaping and Blumhouses, The Exorcist Believer. These haunted houses aren't for the faint of heart. They are intense and feature elevated moments where the horror surrounds guests in unimaginable ways. The nightmares don't end, they're surrounding the houses. Are four sinisterly themed and immersive areas featuring unique live entertainment experiences.

2:20 In select locations, guests can enjoy eerie eateries and bars featuring horror centric food and beverage offerings. Plus, guests can expect a continuously updated experience with must see seasonal events, seasonal events, and one of a kind merchandise. Your deepest fears are closer than you think. And then it just mentions about how it's going to be an acre tenant and twenty acre expansion of Area fifteen, and there's some quotes about this about how their history is in horror, etc. So, just to recap, the only ips they have announced is Universal Monsters, text change, I'm asker the Exorcist and where is that the Exorcist? And with that I missed one?

3:10 Ah yeah, Scarecrow, the Reaping. Okay, So those are the four they've announced, and it does sound like they have mentioned haunted houses here. I think Previously they only mentioned the dining experiences, and I was gonna be like, hear Hockdale experience of some kind. But now they specifically have mentioned hont houses. We still don't know though, just to be clear what stuff is seasonal and want stuff is not. They did mention seasonal items, but we're not sure if the haunts themselves are seasonal or if it's something around the haunts. And initial reaction on me, first, I have two really quick initial reactions and then we'll get Scott's opinion is. First is I'm like, there's no way you're going to open this twenty twenty five when you ran out of money and people had to leave the job site.

3:54 But maybe I don't know, maybe they'll pull a miracle out. But number two is it's it's not very exciting, you know. Of the ips you could have chosen, these seem like maybe some of the least exciting, you know. I think the one that we were anticipating or the hoping that would open would be five Lines at Freddy's, which we know that they have been designing, and that I just it's the thing is here, here's the play. It's exactly what we talked about. With epig Universe in that you know, in Epic Universe they're creating the world's only installations of some of these properties, and that's not what's happening here.

4:36 So it's kind of unclear if they're going to be able with these ips to get enough interest to bring the amount of visitors year around that they will need to those areas, because they're not the only ones. I mean, these are not the only places where you're going to be able to encounter these experiences. That's the problem here is that it's like it's almost like generic. It's like a franchise instead of a one in the world destination. And I think that's the more strategic problem. But Scott, tell me what you think. Well, so I have to say that this is the timing on this is really interesting to me because I just spent the past weekend as a vendor just getting rid of some of my artwork, trying to get my artwork out of the house, selling some of my artwork at Spooky Empire in Orlando, and I was approached by someone who is obviously involved in the Haunt, who's a Haunt fan. Let's just put it that way. They are Haunt fans. They're not involved in the industry, and they came up to me and specifically asked me about this press release and said, what do you think as far as is this going to work? And the first thing I said, of course, was what we had said before, and that was that all depends on how it's executed and whether there are actually actually going to be haunted houses.

5:48 And they said, well, the press release ses there's going to be four, but as you've mentioned, Philip, it doesn't necessarily spell out whether they're going to always be there or whether they're going to be seasonal. So there's that, but even if it is, you know, all always there, I think part of the reason. Let me first address the the the ips that they're dealing with. You know, these are the ones that I mean obviously, Universal Monsters is the one that they own, so they have to lead with that. There's no choice. They have to do that, even if there no other reason. Then, if they're going to invest this money into something that is permanent, they got to make sure that they can hang on to those those rights for a long period of time. So let's start with a the ones that they own and b the ones that they have that they have incorporated successfully in other locations, so they've already got a working relationship with those ips. So that's part of it. If you're going to do a permanent investment, then you have to make certain that you're not going to all of a sudden get the rights pulled away from you. You know.

6:45 So that's I think one one reason. Another reason is keep in mind that in Vegas they're not necessarily going after the grizzled Haunt fans who want the next, the next thing. You know, Vegas has to ride that line between appearing cutting edge but still appealing to a broad mass spectrum of guests and. True Haunt fans. Most of the true Haunt fans I know are over universal monsters. Yeah, they they want something. They want the next thing. They want the five nights at Freddy's, they want the you know, the and even that's not cutting edge. You know, that's that's new, but it's new ish, but it's not cutting edge. The The interesting thing to me was they said, their comment was, we've never been to Vegas, nor had we ever really had an interest in going until now. So does this have the pull to be an anchor destination for a new group of folks, because there's a whole generation that it's not interest They're not interested in gambling, they're not really interested in the the traditional Vegas style shows. But now all of a sudden, because of things like this, and you know, so I think saw us still there the escape room and you know, the darker, the darker side. Is this going to be the final tipping point too? Because they hadn't even they hadn't the people that I were talking to hadn't even heard of Omega mart. They hadn't even heard of miaw Wolf.

8:18 They weren't familiar with that. And when I started describing it, they were like, ooh, that could be fun. So I think what's going to happen is this particular installation, if it's done well, is going to be a tipping point for something that we've talked about multiple times on the show, and that is doing a laser focus on a specific market which can then bleed out as opposed to aiming for let's appeal to everyone. Because I think if these kids, you know, these kids, I call them kids, these twenty somethings had never you know, mid twenties, had never been to Vegas, never really had a desire to go to Vegas now they want to go and see this. Plus when I explained the uniqueness of Omegamart and the Male Wolf installations, they were like, oh, that sounds cool. We would totally do that as well. So I think what's happening is, or at least what it appears to be happening, is that Area fifteen is becoming the non traditional strip, so that if you're not necessarily interested in gambling, because none of the things at Area fifteen even have a casino involved, So if you're not that interested in gambling, but you want to go see what Vegas is all about.

9:31 Maybe what has started out as I'm going to stay on the strip or I'm going to stay downtown and then do maybe a side trip to go see Area fifteen, this may be the tipping point to where people are going to go. I want to stay at Area fifteen and maybe do a side trip to the casinos. So we'll see. We'll see how that goes. But I think this is targeting a much younger audience. I hope that they are able to install it and make it so that it's something that is worthy of that destination visit. But I think it's interesting. I think it's interesting that they have announced this and the animatronics for Epic Monsters at the same basic time. You know, I think that's unique as well.

10:20 Yeah, I don't. I think there are two things there. I mean, I don't agree that this is going to drive traffic with those with I mean, I think it might drive like some really hardcore Haunt fans to get to Vegas because simply because Vegas is already set up to be a destination, because it has been a destination, you know, for a while in America with fifty million visitors annually. So it's it's a place where it has infrastructure that makes it certain demographic. You're absolutely right, but it's not it does not trend well with twenty somethings. Yeah, yeah, well that's what I mean. I don't think it's going to I don't think it's gonna be I'm not sure Haunt people would would fly. I guess. I guess because even me as I guess, what I'm trying to describe is even me as a Haunt fanatic, Right, I look at these ips and I'm like, eh, I've seen them before, But.

11:15 Again, you're a Haunt fanatic. You're not a Haunt fan, there's a difference. Well, I don't either way. I think even if it does attract some of those, that's not that's not enough to build a year round business model on. So I'm wondering if to your point about the IPS, I'm wondering if they're really planning, like you know, eight haunted houses and these are the four that they have the rights to, and so they're like, okay, let's like you know, but then the other ones are going to be temporary, so you know they are going to do finance and phrase against be only for Halloween or something where it'll be the same ish business model. Because I honestly, with all honesty, and I'm sorry to all my Haunt friends in that area, but I really do not believe that there around Hunt House is sustainable in Vegas. Still, I still don't believe it is. So I'm I don't think it is. You know, there's a lot of stuff that has been tried. And then separate of all of that, separate of all of this, just just to clarify something to say something that Scott said, it has been a like trend or it's been a conscious effort by the teams everybody in Vegas to develop Vegas as a non casino thing. That has been a thing that's been happening for a while. Independent of all of this is whether how much Universal is involved in that or not. I actually don't know, but I know that the locals and a lot of the a lot of the folks in that area have been trying to make it a non casino thing anyway. So it's not like a Scott hit on that. But that's not that's

12:48 independent of what's going on here. There are other attractions that've been trying that. Now. They have been planning for Universal to be here, and they have been trying to like piggyback off of Universal's marketing spend by you know, trying to basically like look at who's looking at those areas and look at who has been like tracked to be interested in that area, and then piggybacking off of them to create marketing campaigns that like explain that it's a more a bigger destination. But there's a lot of area, even the dark Ride, you know, the SpongeBob dark Ride, I mean there's there's there's stuff like that all over the strip, the sphere the Dark Ride, the extended shopping destinations, even it chapter one and two, plus the spooky pizza eatery. Plus I mean there's all sorts of like ancillary businesses that they've developed in kind of anticipation of this becoming a non casino driven market. So I think that's been an overall trend.

13:42 And maybe you know, Scott, it's like a domino where it's like this might be like the last piece, and then it hits all those other things and then you have this you know, enormous non casino destination possibility, you know which I almost understanding. I'm not saying that this entity alone is going to be Yeah, is going to be a destination entity. It's not Vegas. This is still going to be the destination entcity. But to your point, Philip, I think this is just another brick in the wall. I think this may be a tipping point. And the fact that Universal has such strong marketing power to get out and the fact that people who are not industry experts like you are are asking me, you know what do I think I think the and I will say, you know, you say that it's it's Vegas. Is has been trying to be a non casino destination for a long time. To be completely honest, if you go back even further, that pendulum has swung back and forth several times over the last I would say forty or fifty years.

14:41 Just like with Alloween at places, right, it's like they try and make it non and then they realize how much money the casinos bring in and they go back to that, and they go and they're like, wait, we can't depend on just casinos because the young kids don't like gambling. And then it's like the back and forth, which is very similar to the same tension. So it's finding it's finding that right balance. But I guess and again minus is anecdotal. Mine is based on what people in that in that elusive mid twenties range, what they what they're telling me when I'm when I'm doing public appearances and out at shows and that sort of thing. So I don't have stats or data, I admit that. But at the same time I think that just the fact that you know they're they're saying, I've the exact words were, We've never had a reason to go to Vegas and to say this is the first time I've ever heard a reason to go to Vegas. Now, if Las Vegas were smart, the the Vegas Convention and Visitors Bureau would start putting together those kinds of you know, you're looking for something that's unique and quirky. Well get universal yet, Mio Wolf, get all. I mean there's there's tons of other smaller ones a SpongeBob, Get yet, all the all the experiences that are not casino based. Get all the experiences that are not cerk to sole, because cirk to Sole actually is aging out a little bit in vague guess. So find those things that that, uh, and don't start saying love Cirk. I'm a huge sirk nerd so, but but people younger than myself merely.

16:12 I mean we've talked about like the Awakening show, which is cheaper, We've talked about Absinth. I mean, we've talked about those shows that are targeting the younger people because they are cheaper and they involve like more party and more atmosphere and more less strict rules. Right, you know, Awakening you can take you know, take pictures or you know, you you know, it's it's like it's less strict than like a cirk show where you all have to like sit and watch and and. As absinthe is completely you know, fully engaging, mainly because you're being insulted through the whole thing, which is hysterically funny. And yet people who aren't, who are expecting a cirque style or a cirk show, are completely driven away from it. So it's yeah, they're they're they're still trying to figure out how do we remain fresh and still remain Vegas.

16:55 Yeah, yeah, I I guess. So the long and the short of is I guess we will see what the actual offerings are when they come out, because I'm still firmly in the position that the Haunt cannot make it in Vegas and not a year round haunt. And I think that so much of Universal's appeal with Halloween is that it is temporary, right, That's so much of the appeal. It is, like it's that whole thing that Scott talks about all the time. It's that seasonality of it, right, It's the fact that it's a fuse. It's like it's a limited time thing that has a lot of power, you know. And I'm my worry is that if it becomes a year round thing where it's just kind of like open and you can go whenever. Then it even it feeds more into the you know, the people that are like, you know, it's it's like the people that are like, oh, I always I always want to go to Tokyo, or I always wanted to go to Japan, or I always want to go to Vega or you know, Vegas, I always want to go to Vegas. Right, It just it just there's no like real incentive to go because it's always available. So the fuse is what makes and I think that's really what drives the success in. It drove it in New York, and it even and drives it in all over. It's the fuse. It's the concept of like you have to act or you're gonna miss it.

18:16 And yet people are still going to the Haunted Mansion, so and still making it a mecca. I mean, I know people, I know people who come to Florida just to visit the Haunted Mansion and pirates of the Caribbean. So in California they had to make it Haunted Mansion Holiday for half the year to drive interest. Well, but again keep in mind that California is not tourist based or not as tourist based as Florida. California is significantly more local based the season pass numbers. The season pass numbers in California are significantly higher as you are a season pass holder, it is. The season pass holder numbers in California are significantly higher as far as percentage go, as in Florida. Florida is a much more of a tourist space.

19:00 You know, they had the same thing in Tokyo, right, And I think the other thing too. You mentioned it not being an area. I mean, you know, Orlando has a significant chunk more visitors than Vegas. I mean, we're looking at seventy five million annually versus less than fifty in Vegas. So you're right, You're absolutely right, that's true. But okay, fifty million or seventy five million, we're still talking a decent chunk of change here. Number one and number two, we're still talking about something you know, I don't. The track record for the haunts in Vegas is not good. I agree with you. There has not been one that has successfully been able to do it. But the first I haven't seen all of them. The first one I saw, there's a reason it didn't work because it wasn't very good.

19:44 So there's that So that's why I keep saying it depends on quality, It depends on their ability to you know, this is not they're not They're also not necessarily billing it as a haunt. They're billing it as an experience with merch call. I mean, you just read that. You just read the press release. So it's got four different experiences plus connective tissue, and people people are telling me it gives them a reason that they want to check out Vegas, even though they've never had an interest before. So we'll see if it's just another if it's just another block to hopefully build that non casino tourism that they're looking for that will target the next generation of people who have money to go on vacation.

20:26 Maybe, I mean, yeah, again, we really have to see what the end up, what the end announcement is. You know what the actual offering is, right, Is it a temporary haunt plus you know, some year round mixing, you know, and you know, maybe there's year round haunts plus a temporary haunt or is it food like what whatever? Is it? But you know some. And maybe it's what they're gonna and maybe it's what they did with you know, the the Haunted Mansion. Maybe it's exactly what what Disney did with the Hanted Mansion, to say, here's our standard and then we'll do an overlay for the holidays. So yeah, which could be cool. But yeah, the only other info just for people in the region, because I looked into this when we did I did some stories in Vegas, but a surprising amount of the of the Vegas visitors, upwards of fifty more over fifty percent of the Vegas visitors are repeat visitors. So it's much more like the California market than people want to realize, which I think is another reason why they were They've been trying to build that bright line that goes back and forth because like you know, if you're in the Sokal region like me, it's only like four hours almost three and a half from my house, and you know, so because of that, it's a it's a it is a like almost like a repeat. So it's much more like closer to the concept of Disneyland where you're going people are just visiting multiple times because it's so easy to get there, and if there were a train, it'd be even easier, you know, even as it is now, it's a half an hour plane ride, you know, from Burbank and people just go all the time and just fly over.

21:58 So that could be another thing too. They could be trying to attract the SoCal audience, you know that, Like you can't expand Halloween Hornites in Hollywood because you're landlocked, but you could expand it in Vegas where people from SoCal already go all the time. So you know, that could be thing. But anyway, okay, we didn't even think. Okay, So the other thing up that we talked about is Universal released the first look at some of their animated figures that's going to go inside the Monsters Unchained, which is the new dark Ride at Epic Universe, which is the new theme park. So the new theme park in Florida by Universal, which is it's also side know, we're talking about things side not to Scott's a reference to Scott.

22:42 You know, when I talk to people, I'm astonished to how many people don't know there's a new theme park coming to Florida. Like, I mean, I talk to people all the time and they're like they all know, Yeah, I don't. It's weird. It's like it's like they think it's like a new Land or something, and I'm like, no, it's an actual theme park, a new theme park, and there. Right across so I foresee the new exits they're building. Yeah, they're like what, I'm okay, a new theme park. It's it's so weird. Uh. But anyway, so univers Will releases big, uh you know, video and images of these new animatronics, and they're I think everyone's really looking at the Frankenstein's Monster, which is going to be an eight foot tall walking animatronic that will kind of greet guests as they enter the Dark Ride.

23:28 And yeah, these they talk about them. So frank Stein's Monster, Jacquela, the wolf Man, the Cuture from Black Lagoon. You guys should really everyone listening should go look at the video and look at the images. I'm if you haven't seen them already all over social media, but it's incredible. These, I mean, these animatronics are absolutely stunning. And again I'm not it's interesting because to me, right, these are so Again, we look at the theme park our stuff right now, right, Disney still hasn't really announced anything, and the last thing that we've seen from the Newest Thing, right is the Tiana's Bayou, which has had problems everywhere. You know, the animatronics don't work, like they shut down whatever. And then you compare the Bayou with these monsters and you're like, there is no comparison. These are incredible like creations. But and yet people still don't know that Epic Universe is even happening, and you know, so I don't know. It's just it's weird to me that there's so much innovation happening, but Disney owns so much of the market share that it's kind of like, you know, every week they're releasing, they're putting out these press releases to stay in the news.

24:38 How much is it really penetrating. I'm not sure. Well, but and as you mentioned even before we started recording, the reason for this is Universal's attendance is uh not doing well. I think that's fair to say. And you have the numbers because you're the numbers guy, but they're not doing well. Yeah, I will, I will do a deep dive into this and maybe for next week if we need that. There's some stuff we missed. I didn't review the entire transcript, so that's my disclaimer. But basically the top line is that they had a five point three percent decline. Universal did in Dean Park revenue for the third quarter, so keep that in mind. The third quarter, which is supposed to be the big quarter, right to lower tencent domestic parks from the record breaking years. However, the company is optimistic about future growth with the May twenty five opening Epic Universe in Orlando, which is expected to transform Universal Orlando.

25:35 And they didn't even mentioned Vegas. You know, they're like, oh, we're be better in Orlando, what about Vegas? They just talked about this, and then also to the point i'd I would venture, well, so many more outlets. Again, we're picking up the story about the revenue decline, then we're talking about like the opening date for Vegas. It's just one of those weird things where you know it's not weird. The news always reports on the negative. The new always clomb glombs onto the negative. It's like Universal is hurting because they're down five percent. But I'll tell you what it is. I mean Universal, if they weren't anticipating this, then they're not. They're not va.

26:16 What's happening is people are having because those people who do know about Epic, those people who do know that it's coming they're just not coming. They're not traveling to Florida until Epic is open. It's like, oh, well, why should we really go now, Let's just wait. We've got to buy tickets to studios and islands anyway in order to even go to Epic. So let's just postpone our vacation another year or a year, year and a half, two years, and do Epic when we go and hit it all in one in one fell swoop as opposed to showing up just before the coolest, biggest, most exciting new park opens. You know, why why miss out on Mario if we come this year and let's just postpone it until next year. This is this is standard. This is theme park one oh one. If you've got something new and big and exciting and crazy and wild and wonderful, you're gonna have people who will have that lag in there.

27:14 They'll they'll replan their vacations, they'll replan their vacation so they can come and experience at all. This is nothing new. We've theme parks. Theme parks for years did this. When they opened new lands, new rides, new coasters, they would intentionally hold off the the early marketing so that they wouldn't have a decrease uh in their attendance for people waiting to get to that attraction. Now it's not so much with rides anymore, but for a new theme park. Yeah, it's that's exactly what it is. Well, it makes sense to me, Yeah, I think I think just the the well, I guess the third quarter only includes like what like half of Halloween horn nights because they opened on it's what, September sixth or something, so it's about half the run. I think that that's the more the interesting part, although you know, anecdotal, again anecdotal.

28:08 We don't know, they're not going to publish numbers, but we have seen all all season just reports of people going and it being not you know, as crowded as it has been in previous years. So again that also could feed right into your thesis about the epic though, even even down to like you know, we're going to skip hornice this year or whatnot. But also they were not great IPS this year. I mean we talked about that previously. You know, again the investment in the IPS was not as strong. Again, again to conserve ostensibly off the record, right, you know, I mean not that this was ever stated, But I think the running theory is that they were trying to save money for Epic, you know, and so they were kind of not spending as much on the IP licenses for horn Ice because they assume people would go anyway, and they didn't really, But how much of that is equalization that we've been talking about versus you know, actual lack of interest in the event, you know, versus them saving their money to come to Epic, I don't know.

29:03 Well, and think about it, and think about it this way from a corporate standpoint, Universal entertainment, universal live entertainment is think of it like a gigantic dark warehouse, and they're going to have to illuminate the certain sections and the certain corners of that warehouse as they see fit and as they are needed. Right now, they are putting all of their money, effort, time into getting Epic up and running, but they can't ignore the other corners of the warehouse either. So don't panic. That flashlight is going to shift and illuminate more information about other parks, other properties, you know, the Texas Park, which we haven't even talked about, you know. And one of the biggest things right now is Epic Universe tickets are on sale, so they want to make sure that you're getting your tickets now to try to compensate for the fact that they are losing attendance because people are dragging their feet to come, so they've got to bank some of that money up front so that they can make up for that loss. It all makes sense. It's nothing that's unusual or scandalous. It's the way the industry works. The guests decide when they want to come based on what is there to offer.

30:10 And because they've been so forthright, at least in Florida or at least on the East Coast about the new park. Obviously it's not making its way to California yet, but there's so much about the new park that guests over here are just saying, we'll just hang out until Epic opens. And I think that it's interesting. You know, we talk about they keep dropping cool things, and they dropped two cool things in the news or two things in the news. Whether you think they're cool or not, it's up to you. But two things in the news that are focused on haunt related stuff. They're focused on horror, and they're doing that again to take that last to ring out that last little bit of Halloween, and it's still something that will get we'll get news attention. It's and the you know, the animatronics look great and the excitement of doing a Haunt in Vegas is appealing to so you know, they're clearly trying to play the media game as best they can.

31:06 And speaking of ringing out Halloween, if you guys are part of our paywall group, if you're part of green Tag Unhinged, we will be doing sort of a ring out of the last little bits of Halloween in Unhinged for this week, so hopefully we'll see you there, but our time is up for this particular show, so on behalf of Philip and myself. This is Green Tag Theme Park in thirty and we will see all of you next week unless you're in Unhinged. And if you're trying to find our Patreon, you can type in green Tagged into Patreon or just go to patreon dot com slash green tags Yes beautiful, So if you've done that,